Comments on: Avalanche Education: Reluctance

By: Avy Education: Motivation | SierraDescents.com - Climb Up and Ski Down

Avy Education: Motivation | SierraDescents.com - Climb Up and Ski Down — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:21:32 +0000

[...] up on my post about my reluctance to take an avalanche course, I thought it would be appropriate to talk about what finally motivated me to bite the bullet and [...]

By: Andy

Andy — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:28:38 +0000

Chaz, thanks for pointing out those valuable resources! Also in that category are snow reports from local ski areas. These tend to be the most accurate on-the-ground forecast/report, and I use them extensively in trip planning. Just be sure to match the resort as closely as possible to your intended area. SoCal mountains see striking differences in weather even in the same storm–and even in the same range.

By: Chaz

Chaz — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:35:15 +0000

I should have said this before, congratulations on taking your first class. In your answer to my question I was hoping that you’d mention actions you took (and may have) before you left home that morning.
Because this is So Cal there isn’t an avalanche report such as csac.org. However we are able to gain some important information about the conditions from the weather report from local news, internet and NOAA. Information such as rate of snowfall per hour, wind direction and speed, temps and rain/snow level.
This is crucial information that is part of your available tools in assessing
hazard.In reading the incident reports of avalanche victims its amazing the number of accounts where this simple act of information gathering wasn’t practiced. Rate of snowfall per hr. wind loading on lee slopes and rain are important clues in evaluating hazard, particularly immediately following a storm

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:05:53 +0000

Chaz, specifically regarding the Jean Peak tour, I was interested in trying out some of the things I learned in class, such as digging a pit and running a compression test. However, I should emphasize that assessment was not formally a part of our Level I curriculum. The class was not intended to give us the skills to look at a pit and decide whether or not it was safe to ski.

For my purposes, then, I was looking more out of curiosity, and I was looking for anything unexpected (which I did find). Our safety choices that day had already been made in choosing an aspect and angle that were both conservative, as well as monitoring existing conditions for any signs that might make us turn back (like shooting cracks or whoomphing).

I’m sure Avy class designers have long discussions as to how much assessment and snow science is appropriate in the first-level course. It is likely many people never advance past level I, so you want to give them something, but at the same time, the subject is far too complex to master in one 3-day weekend.

By: chaz

chaz — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:32:39 +0000

Andy could you please comment on your actions/decisions regarding avalanche safety prior, up to and during you’re Jan 23 San Jacinto descent? Did you apply “all” of your new found knowledge from your class. Tell us what you did besides digging a pit(s) As a former Avy I instructor (NSP) I’m curious. Also what percentage of your class was snow science related?

By: Scott

Scott — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:31:36 +0000

Money and opportunity hit the nail on the head for me. I think the causality of the risk scenario is questionable and don’t really think it would actually put me more at risk. At least, I hope I’d still be just as cautious in the BC as I am now.

By: Chad

Chad — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:25:32 +0000

One more thing, I thought SMC was supposed to help with arranging accomodations at the ESAC dorms for like $60 bucks a night? Surely they can’t be all that bad. You could have also practiced your digloo making and went for a snow camp.

By: Chad

Chad — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:19:19 +0000

Thanks Andy. I will most definitely take this very same course later in the year. I’ve plowed through the textbooks and watched the AIARE safety videos but some practical application experience and “how to” is always good to have. I think you have some valid points on the evolution and dynamic nature of snow science. I think it’s best left said that avalanches, at least for the time being, are unpredictable no matter what you know or how long you’ve been skiing in the backcountry. Evidence of this is omnipresent nearly every year with the best of them (the so called experts) falling victim. It’s scary stuff and testament that even the most informed can justify a “go” decision under false pretenses. There’s just too many factors that apply to snow metamorphism. We know that a melt-freeze can be just as catastrophic as load stress. And it’s still true that you really can’t make good decisions until you’ve had a lot of experience making bad ones. Unfortunately it only takes one bad decision to keep your from making any more decisions in the future. The good news is, as statistics show, men with families take less risk (although some dad’s I know swim with sharks). But if you find yourself skiing with a young buck running on adrenaline with nothing to loose…your decision making and control over your emotional intelligence will be more important than digging a snow pit.

By: aDUB

aDUB — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:45:45 +0000

Great post, thanks for your honesty. I have taken a Level 1, but struggle to convince my friends and potential ski touring partners that it is worth it. Given the choice between going out with an uneducated partner vs paying the $80+ to ski at a resort, I have mostly gone with the former. But I don’t feel good about it. I’m going to pass this on to these guys and help it makes a difference.

With regard to the increased risk, I think there is probably some validity to the argument that people take more chances if they are comfortable with their knowledge. But be careful about confusing correlation and causation. It may not be the case that people with education take more risks, but rather that people who take more risks are more likely to have some of the education…